sNAPAshots: Eshe Lewis

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Transcript

0:00
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Interviewer 0:10
Welcome to sNAPAshots, conversations with practicing, professional, and applied anthropologists. Let’s meet our next guest.

Eshe Lewis 0:20
Hi, myname is Eshe Lewis, my pronouns are she and her. I am a black woman, I have dark brown skin and curly black hair and wearing light brown rimmed glasses, and a blue and black dress. I’m a socio cultural anthropologist, and I’m affiliated with Sapiens magazine. I’m the project director there. And I also sit on the board of directors of Viva for Latina, which is a US based NGO.

Interviewer 0:49
How did you get interested in anthropology?

Eshe Lewis 0:52
Um, you know, unfortunately, I don’t actually have a very romantic story about, you know, seeing anthropology across the room and falling in love. I suppose I was one of those people who was doing anthropology before I knew I was doing it. I was always really interested in the African diaspora, I spent a lot of time asking questions about my family. And then, you know, over time, that also became a focus of study for me. And during the end of my undergraduate program at the University of Toronto, I was in the Latin American Studies program. And I won a grant and I went to Peru, to work with the Afro-Peruvian community for about a month. And when I got to my master’s program, I had to pick a specialty, because it was a multidisciplinary program, Latin American Studies. And I knew what I wanted to do, but I didn’t know what it was how it would be classified. And so I was explaining to our program director, you know, what I was interested in and what excited me and what I wanted to do. And he said, that sounds like an apology. And I said, is anthropology going to let me do what I want to do? And he said, Yes. And that’s how I became aware that I guess I was interested in topology. Yeah, it was kind of like a doing before naming experience for me.

Interviewer 2:16
How has the anthropological perspective or training enhanced your contribution to your workplace?

Eshe Lewis 2:22
The kind of anthropology that I practice, and by that, I mean, the kind of principles that I take into consideration when I am, you know, in the field doing research, really revolve a lot around establishing a rapport based on respect. And I’m really trying to understand people and why they think the way they do. And so when I went to Sapiens, and first worked there, as a fellow, a lot of my work was around art. So selecting art, for the the pieces that we were producing, thinking about which pieces we want to be published thinking about Spanish translations. And so all of that work required me to think very empathetically about humans about their human experience, about how we can represent people visually, in ways that are dignified, in ways that are true to their experience. And then currently, as a project director, a lot of what I do is creating programming, which, you know, doesn’t necessarily sound very sexy, it also sounds kind of nebulous. But really, what I’m trying to do is think about the kind of experience we want the fellows in the program to have. So I run a fellowship program that teaches anthropologists, early career anthropologists, generally, Public Science Writing and podcasting skills. And so what I’m thinking about there is how people interact with each other, what kind of conditions do I need to offer so that people feel like they can tell their stories well, that they can receive the kind of training that makes sense to them, that they have a program that has, you know, a flow that makes sense that they feel like they’re supported. And so sometimes, I suppose what’s anthropological about that isn’t immediately obvious. But I’m really thinking about the experience of an early career anthropologist, what it’s like to come out of grad school. And that’s something that I take from my, you know, own lived experience of getting out of grad school and saying, I’m really interested in sharing what I’m doing with the public. I don’t know how to do that. There are things that I want to bring with me from academia, there are things I want to leave behind. So what kind of atmosphere can I create understanding that experience? And knowing what that’s like, how can I create a space where people feel like they can thrive, where the people who are behind the scenes working in teaching also feel like they have the conditions they need in order to teach as best they can. So that is immediately how that shows up. In my work as an advisor for the NGO, I spend a lot of time thinking about funding, how we fund how we support black woman’s work in Latin America, the kind of cultural differences that exist that we need to be aware of. So, you know, something like banking, banking systems in Brazil look very different from the way they look here. Racism plays into that the kind of regional differences that, you know, black woman experience in their work, eradicating sexual violence, or supporting Black women who are also experiencing that violence, I do a lot of thinking about how the NGO can offer support how we can create horizontal relationships, or try to, you know, break down a lot of those hierarchical structures that have maintained this system of, you know, were benevolent and we give, how do we create a partnership, right, where we’re, we’re really respecting one another and listening to one another, so that we can, everyone can meet their goal. So those are the kinds of those kinds of aspects of anthropology that I’m bringing into both my work at the magazine and also, you know, on the board where I work.

Interviewer 6:05
What was one thing about anthropology that nobody told you as a student?

Eshe Lewis 6:10
I don’t think I really understood how lonely it can be sometimes. Um, I don’t think anyone really told me how difficult it can be, right, to like advocate for yourself. And this is probably talking more about like, you know, cultures as well, right. But like, I think, both anthropology and academia, but also, I would say more so. Like, if you have these anthropological principles that you are using to conduct work in the workplace, or, you know, running your own business, or whatever, you can, you can become unpopular, right, like, a lot of what I was saying, like I was saying about, you know, coursework or speaking up when I thought a theory wasn’t going to work, that applies to other aspects of life, too, like people just generally don’t like someone pointing out the flaws in their plan, especially when they’re really excited about them. And so it can be hard to, you know, I’ve had to figure out how to deliver some news that someone isn’t going to like, right. I think I had to learn how to use the clout I had to do good. You know, whether that was while I was doing my field research and feeling like, Okay, I’ve got the support of a US institution, that means is going to mean a lot if I go to the government of this country I’m working in and I say, “Listen, I need access to this, because I’m trying to do research,” you know, being well like being aware of the leverage I have and the privilege that I have, and being willing to do what I have to do, to use that privilege for the good of the people that I’m working with him for the good of a project that is going to do good for others. But yeah, it can be it can be very, you can be unpopular when you’re pointing out, like the things that nobody else wants to talk about, or nobody else wants to learn. And it can also turn you into the person that everyone comes to, which can be great, but can also be a lot of responsibility, right? Like when people feel like, oh, this person is open to talking about things that other people aren’t seeing. And you know, if that was just me, but it’s you too, that’s great. But then sometimes you’re like, oh my gosh, now everybody wants to talk to me about all of this stuff. And I very much lean into my identity as like an entity, you know, when people talk about like anthropologist is gossips like professional gossips. I love that. But yes, so there, there are some downsides to that, where you’re like, now I know, a bunch of stuff. And I’m just walking around knowing all this stuff, which doesn’t sound like a big deal, but can be. So I guess that’s both a positive and a negative. But you know, when you have a like “my door is open policy,” people are probably going to use it from time to time, right?

Interviewer 8:51
What advice would you like to pass on to future anthropologists seeking roles in professional fields?

Eshe Lewis 8:57
I would really like those involved, just to know that they have a lot to offer. I think that, you know, organizations like Napa exist for that reason, you know, like if anthropologist didn’t really have anything to offer, then I don’t think we would work so hard to try to set people up to offer that right. I think it’s really important to figure out how to translate your skills, right? Like figuring out not only for a resume, but for you to be able to feel confident in saying I am capable of doing whatever it is that I’m capable of doing. And I also think, you know, a lot of us are trained again, in an environment where we just were expected to know everything. Like even if you don’t, then you should know how to fake it really well. But I think there is a great benefit and I learned as one of my professors have, I think what makes a great professional is someone who knows how to to identify the limits of their knowledge. So also not being afraid to say I don’t know, I don’t have that skill yet. I can get that skill, this is something that I can acquire, because I have a history of doing that, like really looking at the times that you push yourself through something or you learn something new or you were able to adapt to a new environment, like those are skills that don’t sound like skills, but they really are skill and they’re very important. So really being able to have the confidence in yourself to say, I don’t know, but I know how to find out. That does a lot, it takes a lot of pressure off of you to have to just know things that you have no business knowing, or you wouldn’t have known if you…you know? And I think it’s also the most honest and transparent way to move through the world, right is to just be really clear, or try to be clear about what you don’t know because that gives you a place to start working from right. You’re not expected to be you know, 100% qualified for every job you apply for because then what would be the point why would you want a job you totally know how to do right so I think really maintaining the curiosity and being willing to say what you know, and what you don’t know and being willing to open yourself to the possibilities of finding out

Interviewer 11:10
Thank you, Eshe, for sharing your experience as a practicing sociocultural anthropologist! For more sNAPAshots find us at PracticingAnthropology.org Meta LinkedIn and Twitter. Join NAPA at the Careers Expo November 17. In Toronto, Canada see you there!

Credits 11:29
PRODUCED BY Niel Tashima Cathleen Crain Joshua Liggett DIRECTED BY Reshama Damle Suanna Crowley MUSIC BY by Tokyo music walker “Slowly” CREATIVE ASST. Juana Lozano Many Thanks to NAPA’s Governing Council for supporting sNAPAshots Conversations with Practicing, Professional, and Applied Anthropologists NAPA is a section of the American Anthropological Association Join us in person at the Careers Expo in Toronto, CA November 17 2023! NAPA is seeking volunteers to join the sNAPAshots project. We’d love to hear from YOU! Contact us at: ntashima@ ltgassociates.com

Eshe Lewis 11:32
[Outtakes] I really like a situation where everybody learned something and if you’re not gonna learn anything, that I mean that’s useful for a time but if you’re anything like me your brain is going to rot, right? When you’re just kind of like okay, I got it there’s no glory in that there’s no satisfaction. I’m just like endlessly curious, I can be about anything like I’ll see a new spoon that I haven’t seen before and I’m like what is that all about, right? You just get used to being a pain in somebody’s you know, like a thorn in the side of some people but like, Yeah, I think my big lessons were really do no harm and get ready to help out.

Interviewer 12:10
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